Professional standard 2 transcript
Professional standard 2 transcript
With Philippa Geddes, Matthew Devlin, Catherine Witt, Ify Nwokoro and Derren Hamill
Philippa
Hi, I'm Philippa, Social Work England's regional engagement lead for the South West of England. Welcome to This Is Social Work.
In this series, we're focusing on the professional standards - the 6 standards that social workers must know, understand and be able to do as part of their role. The professional standards are specialist to the social work profession and apply to social workers in all roles and settings across England. In this week's episode, we're focusing on standard 2 - establish and maintain the trust and confidence of people.
To kick off the conversation, I'm joined by Matthew, regional engagement lead for the North West, and Catherine, regional engagement lead for the North East, as we discuss our own personal experiences of building trust and confidence in our roles as social workers, and later in the episode Catherine is joined by National Advisory Forum member Iffy and Derren, a young person with lived experience of social work. they share their own experiences of establishing and building trust in social workers and how communication plays a vital role throughout their involvement. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
Catherine
I'm Catherine Witt and I'm one of the regional engagement leads for Social Work England and I’m joined by my 2 colleagues today - Matthew Devlin and Philippa Geddes.
For me this standard really represents who we are and what we are as a profession, and we aren't going to look at all elements of the standard – we're going to focus on 2.4 and 2.5, and 2.4 is ‘practise in ways that demonstrate empathy, perseverance, authority, professional confidence and capability, working with people to enable full participation in discussions and decision making’ and 2.5 is ‘actively listen to understand people, using a range of appropriate communication methods to build relationships’. And the reason why we've sort of picked those 2 out as being really important is linked, I think, to some of the evidence that we're getting about why concerns are being raised about social workers.
So in our fitness to practise process we are seeing that the majority of concerns that are raised with us are about communication and I think that's replicated in many other areas of social work. If you look at serious case reviews and different parts of activity, communication is always the thing that it boils down tom so we thought it would be really helpful just to focus in on that. The other element is about involving people in decisions about their lives and that comes up as a theme on a regular basis. I've been a children and family social worker for about 20 years and involving children and young people in the decisions, the massive decisions, that they make about their lives is something that they will constantly reflect on and come back to you, and feel on many occasions that they haven't been involved in those decisions and it is a real skill. It is very difficult because sometimes you're making very difficult decisions about children's lives that is not something that they want but is about protecting them. So those are my sort of, first thoughts,
I'm going to go to Matthew. Matthew, your thoughts on professional standard 2?
Matthew
I think for me particularly standard 2.4 and 2.5, it sits at the very top of what social work is about and essentially is the reason why I come into the profession. I come into the profession because I enjoy building relationships with people, I enjoy communicating with people but I think for every role that I've had in my career, so the 11 years I’ve been a social worker, I think the importance of building relationships, the importance of good communication, and the importance of transparent communication I think has started at the very top of, being positive in all those roles that I've had and I think and that's from being a frontline social worker, but now as a regional engagement lead, I think being able to communicate and build relationships is incredibly important.
It's a skill I think, it's a skill that you develop throughout your social work training whatever route that is. But I think it's a skill that you'll never stop developing as a social worker and I think I've learned a lot in my role now, as regional engagement lead, about how to maybe build relationships on that bigger scale I suppose.
Previously my practice was really focused on adults and predominantly learning disability and I think I felt I was skilled in building those relationships and using those relationships to have a positive impact on people's lives but I think learning how to do that across an area such as the North West and with the range of stakeholders that all the regional engagement leads work with, I think it really is really important for us but I just think for the sector generally and for the profession generally, building relationships just sits at the heart of everything that I’ve ever done in my social worker career. That sounds really grand, doesn't it? But I think that that is the reality.
I think all the good that has come out of the things that I’ve done in the last 11 years has ultimately come from the relationships that I feel I’ve been able to do.
Catherine
Thanks Matthew. Philippa?
Philippa
Thanks Catherine.
I think I would absolutely echo what both of you have just said really and I think communication is absolutely at the forefront of being a social worker and I think, you know, it's really interesting Catherine that you shared some of the themes that come out of our fitness to practise concerns, and that communication is often referred to, and poor communication in particular.
And sometimes you know as a social worker myself I get really frustrated when I see evidence of poor communication and I absolutely appreciate that the sector's under a lot of strain, you know COVID and the pandemic have really kind of pushed the sector and the people we work with, you know, to the limit, but I feel really passionately that we should always be ensuring that we're doing our best to treat, to work with people to be showing, to be empathic and to kind of, ensuring that we're communicating the best we can, you know?
I think it's really important and it's the least we can do in many ways. I think being a children's social worker, having good communication, you know, sometimes we have to have uncomfortable conversations with people. There may be times where it's actually, you know. Part of the Children’s Act is about, kind of, the wishes and feelings of the child and ensuring that we work in partnership with parents, and I think it's really important. All that entails good communication.
There may be times when we have to make decisions or recommendations that may, you know, that families or children may not be in agreement with but I still think you can deliver and have difficult conversations with respect and humility. And absolutely, you know, that that difficult conversation can be done, you know, often parents will say to me just be honest to me, you know, don't you know.
Often the amount of times we hear that families and children don't understand why they have a social worker involved in their lives. Perhaps, you know, we listen to stories of care experienced people who don't even understand perhaps why they were even in care, or what their care history is, you know. If we can make sure we get good communication right, if people are included in in discussions and decisions around their lives and if we're, you know, making a really conscious effort to listen to people and really respond to their communication needs.
We use a lot of jargon in social work and some inappropriate language and I just think it's really important that we work hard and go that extra mile to try and make sure that people feel included and they understand, because you know sometimes we can think people understand but if we're not checking that out or really working hard to make sure they understand, or we're having that good, you know, developing those communication skills, you know, that's when people get upset – they get angry. And that often can lead to that level of complaints and concerns being raised of us. So I think it goes, you know, I'd absolutely agree with both of you – it goes to the heart of social work like you said Catherine and I think if we can get communication right it's difficult, you know.
And I have to say, you know, hands up I haven't always got it right, you know? And that's where the feedback, and that's where hearing the voice of people with lived experience is really important.
And I’m really pleased we've got two people today who are going to be telling us about what, you know, what good social work and communication, you know, has meant to them. Because hearing from those who've lived experienced absolutely then makes us as practitioners, as social workers, be, you know, be better and improve. And you know, it goes into sort of, the work of Social Work England about, you know, that co-production element and making sure that we're listening to all people from the sector, but in particular people with lived experience of social work.
Matthew
I think that listening is such an important one as well, isn't it? I think it's, sometimes when you're thinking about good communication you can just think of it in terms of that one way thing but I think that the listening bit's incredibly important.
I've always felt really privileged to sit in people's living rooms and listen to them talking about their struggles and their difficulties and their challenges and then working with those individuals to support them to make some of them changes but I think you're right, I think our roles as regional engagement leads, it's important for us to listen to the sector and again I feel incredibly privileged to get that opportunity – to listen to the sector, to listen to social workers, take that back in, take that insight back in and for us to have those discussions within the organisation, to hear what's happening in the sector and I think that's, listening for us now is really important isn't it? And I think it's really important for the organisation as well.
Catherine
I think communication can come in very different forms and just listening to people or being with them and being present with them and sometimes I think we get too bogged down in talking and being, as I say, being present is sometimes all you need to be. So understanding communication in all its forms and guises, and the right thing at the right time. And I think as social workers sometimes we get a wee bit frenetic about the talking and the problem solving, but you know good communication lets people go at their own pace and to really take control because we aren't going to be involved in their lives forever and having that, giving those people the support to be able to work on their own issues and solve some of their own problems, is really, really important.
Well I think that's a really good point and to bring Ify and Derren in to talk about their views and as people who've had social workers in their lives, and we're really grateful for them to spare their time and to join us and to give us their views.
I'm really delighted to introduce 2 really interesting people that have agreed to join us on this podcast today and so I’m going to start with Derren. Do you want to introduce yourself and just tell us how social workers have been involved in your life?
Derren
Hello, I'm Derren Hamill. I'm in a residential children's home and so that's where social workers are involved in my life.
Catherine
And how long have they been involved in your life Derren?
Derren
Pretty much all my life but not for the same reasons. So each time, so now it's obviously more to do with the fact that I’m section 20 on a voluntary order in care.
Catherine
Brilliant, that's great, so we'll maybe get to ask a few more questions about that. Just so that people know, if you don't mind saying, what age you are?
Derren
I'm 17.
Catherine
17, that's great. Okay – Ify, do you want to tell us who you are and how social workers have been involved in your life?
Ify
Yeah so, my name is Ify Nwokoro, born and raised in Nigeria, moved to the UK just over a decade ago, and I was involved in a car accident in 2010 that left me paralyzed with a spinal cord injury and that's really the first time I got involved with social workers in the hospital and pretty much since then, pretty much all my social work needs have come from that perspective, of that medical spinal cord injury disability side of things.
Catherine
That's brilliant, thanks for that both of you.
So today we're going to talk about standard 2 and standard 2 for social workers is the importance of social workers establishing and maintaining the trust and confidence of people and I think it's one of the most important standards for a social worker because it tells them how to be a social worker and how they should behave, so I’m going to ask you both a bit about that and a bit about your experience and of social workers that have worked directly with you. I'll start this time with Ify, my question to you is, what has your experience been about being able to establish and build trust with your social workers, if you have been able to do that?
Ify
So I haven't had social workers involved with me like, or right through the whole process but right through the decade I’ve had this disability, but every time they've had to step in were situations where I was in a vulnerable position, so straight off the bat the need for establishing trust and you know, making me feel safe in their hands was pretty crucial, to the first time when I was in hospital it came more from sort of, not putting too much pressure on me um social worker let herself known, let herself be known by me and let me know where to find her that sort of thing, and she'd pop in just to check how I’m doing, maybe sometimes like have a cup of tea with me, that kind of thing, and I got to know her as a person first and I was lucky to have, like be in that position, being in hospital where she was based so by the time we actually started getting to the brass tacks of the technical side of things, of what I needed post admission, which is really where the social work intervention came in, I was already comfortable with her and it was made very clear from the start that it was a case of she was there to help me, not get to a point where I didn't need her anymore which I respected quite a lot, because that's almost like, say my job is to make sure that my job becomes obsolete, that sort of thing.
But it just made it feel more genuine, that this person actually was there like, for my needs and ever since then I’ve been a lot more open-minded with social workers since then but it's sort of been the same thing where I’ve been in a vulnerable situation and then they've sort of like, had a discussion with me, how to tackle me on an informal basis and established who we were as people first before getting into the actual work and yeah that's how getting that trust has worked for me really.
Catherine
That's amazing and hearing that sort of whole side of, just building that relationship is so important, particularly in your position where it was a catastrophic event in your life and relationships are really important at that stage, so thanks for that Ify.
So Derren, what about you? Have you been able to sort of, have a social worker that you've built a good relationship with and that you've trusted?
Derren
A bit of both ways because it’s like, my social worker I’ve got now, I couldn't fault her but like, I just couldn't. Like she's been good at building relationships, she does try and keep in contact, I don't always make it easy.
But in the past I wouldn't ever say it's anything social workers did, I wouldn't say any of my past social workers, other than there was one I worked with as, but I was working with 2 at the same time, a student, and the student was really good at building a relationship and maintaining trust but like I’d say, it wasn't as much the social workers it was that I didn't make that aspect easy - I avoided conversations and I’d like, my mum would tell me ‘oh your social worker's coming’ and I’d just not be at the house all day and just avoid them.
Catherine
And why was that? Was it about them or was it about the fact that they were a social worker?
Derren
It wasn't them being a social worker, it wasn't even them doing anything wrong either, it was just their personality didn't work for me like I have to say it.
Catherine
That's absolutely yeah, understandable, especially when you're young and it really matters doesn't it, that you get on with the person that's working with you?
Okay so another question I’m going to ask you both is about, part of that, the standard is about been being really part of decision making and feeling that you're in control of what happens to you. And I think social workers get criticised quite a lot that they don't involve people enough, particularly young people, and sometimes decisions are taken where young people, or anybody really, isn't fully involved in that decision.
So just from your point of view we'll go to Ify again, have you felt involved in decision making and have social workers made that easy for you? Have they included you in big decisions in your life?
Ify
Yeah so I've been quite hands-on with like, living with disability from the start. I did definitely have to be pushed in that direction at the start, I didn't know what life was going to be like out in the community and actually having to live with disability outside of a controlled hospital environment. But yeah, the social workers and all the medical staff in fact in the hospital made a point of duty to encourage my independence you know, direct my own care, have a say in decisions that would be made and it wasn't even a case of they were just telling me what, that I needed to do these things.
When they were just starting making some of those decisions they tried to make sure that where it was possible I was involved, so one of the big things social workers helped me get do was transition back into university.
I knew I wanted to go back into university straight after discharge as quickly as possible but there was, there were a lot of like technicalities and getting that like sorted out, to the few meetings with different groups of people involved with the process and as much as possible the social worker would always like, invite me to the meetings, make sure that they were on the day I was available or if there was any reason I couldn't make a meeting that was possibly down to my health or something that was out of my control, but making it possible for me to always be able to attend those meetings if I wanted to and then thank goodness I did because there were definitely some things that if I didn't get a say in how they panned out, things would have turned out unfavourably.
When I got to, you know, I would give my two cents on what I thought, how I thought things should go forward, I got to learn why things happen a certain way or could or couldn't be how I wanted them and make better informed decisions going forward. So yeah I was definitely encouraged to take part in my decisions around my life at the time and I’m very grateful for that really.
Catherine
That's brilliant. Was there any was there any decision that was taken without your involvement?
Ify
No so there were decisions that went different ways from what I wanted. There were different decisions that I wasn't happy with but there was a good effort made to help me understand why. I mean even at the time there were some things that I wasn't happy with or I wasn't happy with the explanations I was given. They say hindsight is 20 20 so looking back now I can see where they were coming from and even though there's some things I feel they could have still done a bit differently at the time, but I didn't have the insights I have now like ten years later so in hindsight it went a lot better than I thought it did.
But none of those decisions were down to just outrightly making them, them being made for me, it was always a case of ‘this couldn't happen because X Y Z is in place’ that sort of thing. There was always an explanation, whether I was happy with it or not, but at least I wasn't being left out of those decisions.
Catherine
Yeah, you were really included.
Ify
Yeah.
Catherine
So Derren, what about you? Have you felt included in all the decisions made about you in your life?
Derren
Yeah, I have always, I’ve always felt pretty included but obviously, I also look at it and even like sometimes I won't weigh up all the pros and cons, so when there is a decision getting made I’m usually there. I am probably the one who puts the least amount of thought into a decision so although it would be pretty easy for them to make a decision without me they’ve always been, they’ve always included me in like, decisions that are going to impact anything at the end of the day or at least my social worker, I don't know about everyone's but just want to do what's best for the young people they work with.
Catherine
That's great. How many social workers have you had in your life?
Derren
About 6.
Catherine
6, so that's quite a lot. Ify – how many social workers have you gotten to know?
Ify
Gotten to know? 2, yeah just the 2 now. I’ve probably worked with one other in passively. Yeah I’ve only really welcomed 2 social workers.
Catherine
Both really good places to make observations about your own experience of that. If you had to sort of choose, would you want social work contact in person or is it quite okay over technology, you know using technology?
Ify
I can think of situations where it would, I preferred to have it in person but in my head those tend to be more crisis situations, or situations that tend to be a lot more sensitive but this is just my imagination, thankfully I’ve not had to deal with any sort of negative situation like that. There might be a situation that I can't think of but as it stands I’m quite happy just doing things over the phone. I'm comfortable with these things going virtual, video chats and all that. It's more a case of I’m comfortable with what they're, with what they are comfortable with.
So yeah, I wouldn't put a preference on either, again as I’m saying it's not really been tested for me to diversify the ways I communicate with them, so I’m good at whatever at the moment.
Derren
I actually prefer the ringing. I also think sometimes it is nice to see each other so I think mostly, especially now with me and my social worker, it’s an as and when, like I was speaking to her on my lunch break today. I, we don't really arrange calls or stuff or if she wants to see me, we struggle to see each other on weekdays anyway because I’ve got work so she'll say ‘I’m free this Saturday like 2 days before, are you at your mum and dad's?’ because she works, where she's based, near my mum and dad and we'll arrange to see each other that way so it's more casual rather than making it like, setting up meetings and stuff. It can sometimes be a bit too much like.
Catherine
Derren, can I ask you a question about you being in the looked after review, when people are talking about you and communicating across the sort of table, how does that feel?
Derren
Alright, you're always in it and everyone speaks to you respectfully. It's just about, most of it's about everyone finding out what you want and what's going to benefit you and what needs to happen. It's just small stuff like medicals, they can talk about when you want to move out, all that type of stuff so none of it's bad and everyone there makes you feel comfortable.
Catherine
That's great, thanks Derren.
So we're gonna just, we're going to, I've got another one question to ask but before we do that, I'm going to put you on the spot and say you 2 don't know each other. Is there anything you want to ask each other, one thing that does come to mind?
Ify
Like I was 20 when I had the accident and I always used to think ‘oh wow, that was really young’ but then many people like you who've obviously had that from much younger, I'll say how do you think your find the transition from say childhood to teenagers, and how do you think it's going to go going forward with social workers?
Derren
There's actually a plan put in place for, they say, I'm working with someone called a leaving care worker and she'll completely take over my social worker as soon as I turn 18 and so I’ll work with her up until I’m 25 and then after that, I'll practically just live obviously like any other adult would.
Ify
Are you looking forward to that? Are you nervous?
Derren
So I've not really thought about it. Obviously that's quite a while away. My social worker who I work with now, like I only started working with her when I had moved to the local area so around the same time I got my social worker, a couple of months after I had my leaving care worker working with me anyway so I’ve got a good relationship with both of them.
Ify
That's pretty good.
Catherine
That’s great, so you feel quite confident about the future?
Derren
Yeah.
Catherine
So, yeah the last question, and I want you to sort of think about this one.
We really want social workers to be the best they possibly can and we want to support them in that but if there was 3 things that you thought was important for a social worker to know or be skilled at, what would those 3 things be and why?
Ify, will I put you on the spot first?
Ify
Yeah, I'll go first. Oh, okay so first thing I’d say is probably patience. Being patient, not just with the service user also with the situation as a whole, as a lot of people would know they don't tend to be very easy or straightforward. Also being patient with themselves and you know, not putting that pressure on too much if things aren't going the right way. So yeah, patience is a big deal for me in regard to anyone who I'm in their care.
Second thing I’d say is probably self-care – that's probably like my top one for social workers. Just the better frame of mind my social worker is, the better service they can provide me so from an individualistic point of view, from my own selfish point of view, like I’ll get better services if they are well taken care of but also from their point of view they'll be able to do a better job and come out of it a lot more satisfied and more fulfilled from doing their job.
Catherine
Derren, the most important thing for social workers?
Derren
I’d probably say managing their time pretty well in terms of, although you have your working hours, like my social worker now says to her boss like, gas a conversation with her boss and she's like ‘I understand that these are my working hours but Derren wants to schedule in a conversation but can't talk on it in my working hours because he's at work himself, so can I take a few hours off one of the days and put them onto the Saturday and go out and see Derren?’ and so like managing the time where it benefits not even just young people, the people they're working with because not everyone can do every time.
Catherine
Brilliant, so fitting into your lifestyle as much as you know, not nine to five sort of thing? Really important.
Derren
Yeah.
Catherine
Any other important things features of a social worker?
Derren
I can't say I’ve seen a lot but I think a social worker should be straightforward. I think that it's better to get the point across and potentially upset the person you're working with then tiptoe around it and then still end up with the same outcome.
Catherine
Be honest and straightforward, yeah.
Derren
And then I’d probably also say, let the person you’re working with kind of take the lead more. Like if I was talking to my social worker and she was constantly butting into every last sentence I’d probably get fed up and I’d just leave it and be like, so they need to be able to listen as well.
Catherine W
Brilliant one, that's fantastic. So Ify?
Ify
The third one that came to mind was being open-minded about, you know, what you could face out there and when we hear the words ‘open-minded’ usually we think maybe to someone whom you may not be, you may not agree with on a fundamental level – whether it's their beliefs or their actions they've taken. But most of that is important and not trying to take anything away from that type of open-mindedness, also thinking of things like Derren said, having a client who may not be able to fit in the time that you're working out, being open-minded to think outside the box and you know, being open minded to different situations that social worker might find themselves in not necessarily or something to do with the clients, but more with their environment, something to do with the people around them, their family, that sort of thing.
And it's not a case of having, just sticking completely by the book. That may sound like I’m saying that you should break rules but no, just shouldn't be too rigid with their approach to their clients and every situation is different, every case is different, every service user is different, I just mean being open-minded to, you know things possibly not being how you may think they are when you first take on the case.
Catherine
Well that was a really insightful discussion Ify and Derren, thanks ever so much.
Really positive response in terms of, you know, just your views about social work and that's really great to hear – it's not always the case and we promise we didn't give them the script but it was really good to hear that and I think lots of food for thought as well.
Certainly one of my like, moments during that conversation was that, was from you Ify and where you said that the most important thing you thought a social worker needed to have was patience, I have to say that I was a little bit taken aback you know. I was thinking of all sorts of things but patience wasn't a word that necessarily jumped into my head and, but I thought about that you know, just during these few minutes and I think it is really, really important. I do see the importance and patience is a such a hard thing to have as a social worker. You know, we're expecting families to, and people to, change and do things very quickly at our pace but actually, that isn't how we achieve sustainable change and we've got to let people you know, go at that at their pace.
And there is something as well about organisationally you know, we're under a lot of pressure to close things and get things done, so being professionally patient is hard in the context that we're working but for me, it's about having that inner patience and to really offer to people you know, the opportunity to work on their own lives, and for them to take that that on when social work isn't present in their lives and so there's, there is you know, it has been a really, I think really insightful to use the word patience and it's maybe not something as I say that social workers are necessarily well trained at or good at, but I’m certainly going to think about it and from my own perspective so thanks for that.
So Philippa, any top tips or anything that sort of struck you making this podcast?
Philippa
Thanks Catherine. I think there are lots of things really in terms of top tips, I could probably reel off a list but trying to think what's really pertinent, I think again I think you really touched on it before we, at the beginning when you talked about, and I think Matthew you said it as well, about the value of listening and I think it's about looking at, that communication comes in many forms and I think really being reminded of that and thinking about those different ways we can communicate with people, and sometimes you know, just being and spending time with people and not always going in with an agenda.
I think often in statutory social work there always needs to be an aim or purpose of the visit or the meeting but actually, if we're talking about building relationships, some of that's being you know, spending time with people. Some of the best conversations I’ve had with young people have been when we've been driving somewhere or when we're just walking out of a meeting you know what I mean or where you know, we're you know, I’m taking them somewhere, taking them to you know, to have family time or to see and to meet someone new, so I think it's about just remembering that the value of communication can come in many different forms, and just to also always think about, maybe sometimes be the social worker you would want to have, you know? And think about how that is received because I think that's really important.
Matthew
I'm going to sound like a broken record but I’m going to talk about listening as well and I talked about this on Twitter a couple of weeks, a couple of weeks ago and it was something that my very first practice educator said to me, and this was 14 years ago now and it all stuck with us, and she was a brilliant social worker and she said very early on in my placements, this was my first 70 day placement this was, it was my first big placement, and she said very early on ‘learn how to listen to people’ and that has stuck with me for the last 14 years and I probably didn't understand it at that point, I didn't understand the importance.
I didn't really understand what she truly meant and there was probably a lot of other information that was being given to us at that stage and I was a bit overwhelmed by everything, first placement, but I think that building that skill I think was so important and I think, in that placement was with older adults, which was a completely new area for me to enter into and it was ultimately the area of social work that I went into when I first qualified and that has stuck with us in every role that I’ve had – learning how to listen to people, whoever that individual is and whatever their circumstances are and whatever circumstance you're meeting them in, I think just listening to them, spending that time truly listening as well is a skill to develop and I think it's sometimes overlooked.
But I think for me that remains a really important part of my professional life but my personal life as well. I mean I listen to my children, listen to my wife, all those things are really important so it certainly stuck with us and had a really profound impact I think on me as an individual and me as a social worker, and I think that has to be my number one because it certainly had the biggest impact.
Catherine
That's great Matthew and actually, when both of you are talking you know, the patience bit has filtered in again you know, and actually we can't expect that good communication to happen immediately – we've got to work at it, we've got to develop it and we've got to make it right for the people that we're working with and I suppose the thing I probably would like to end on, and it was something actually that sort of resonated with me I think quite early on in my career, was relationships change lives.
You know, without a relationship you ain't gonna do very much social work and sometimes that will take time and sometimes you think it's time you haven't got but without it, you aren't going to affect any meaningful change and that's what social work is.
Philippa
Thanks again to Ify and Derren for joining us today and sharing their personal experiences of social work so openly, as well as Matthew and Catherine for adding their own perspectives.
If you enjoyed the discussion and would like to continue the conversation with us you can follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn using the hashtag #ThisIsSocialWorkPod to share your thoughts.
You can also find out more about the professional standards on our website.
Join us for our next episode where we'll be talking about standard 3 and what it means to be accountable for the quality of your practice and the decisions you make as a social worker.